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In document by Vas regarding the rybka 1.2 and all the other test versions of 1.2, Vas pointed out that a misstep was made in the creation of 1.2: "Rybka 1.1 was released on March 16, 2006. Rybka 1.2 was released on May 1, 2006, and contained various changes to the search and evaluation. Testing has shown that, cumulatively, these changes are not as good as was anticipated. It is likely that somewhere between the release of Rybka 1.1 and the release of Rybka 1.2, a misstep was made. I have gone back and re-created a “trail” of changes between Rybka 1.1 and Rybka 1.2. We are looking to test every link in this trail to identify this misstep." Are these issues already solved(misstep corrected)in the rybka 2 series? How about for the rybka 1 series?
obviously not since there is no appreciable change in ELO between 1.2 and 2.1 maybe 10 or 15 ELO
In the position below, you will find after testing that only rybka 1.1, finds the winning move/winning sacrifice(Black bishop takes pawn at f2) by brutus in the Romanshin - Brutus game. All other rybka versions(1.2 and later versions)move Nd3. Black to move: 4r1k1/p4ppp/1p1q1n2/1Pb1n3/8/1N4P1/PB3PBP/2RQ2K1 b - - 0 1
This is false please do your homework before announcing such things. 1.2c finds bxp after only 7 mins and 20 sec of thought at a depth of 19. Give us a better one than that pitiful example. LOL Mike
btw that last position was run on un little baby 2.6 ghz celeron not some 8 way opteron mainframe server. lol! Ok ill stop :) Mike
How much time does Rybka 1.1 take to find the winning move ?
one quick note sorry something that was bugging me about the previous post you said, "rybka 1.1 finds the winning move/sacrifice" its not a winning move it's simply a "black to draw" sacrifice otherwise white is up with alittle bit of initiative but nothing more, cute and understandable why it takes so long for any engine to find because of its highly unlikely nature to "just work out" the way it does. after bxp and king takes bishop its at least tactically even at a depth 18 with white at -.13 after a few mins of thought. with what looks like a draw by repetition by the black knight on g4 and white king. but I only worked the variations in my head from the kxb move on and haven't had time to give it true computer time yet nor do I care too. LoL so black found this terrific forced draw out of a position that was easily a draw without the sac but fun I guess for the computers to try and find since it was "forced" so congrats to brutus for using the Kotov method! He needs to get out more obviously. Mike
Hello Mike , you must be better than Romanishin because Romanishin could not save that game and I bet that you don't even know who Brutus is.
I'll update what I said about the Nd3 move ok, its more than just alittle compensation, in retrospect, if... Brutus would have played the normal nd3 he would have won with perfect play because after the exchanges of the rooks and queens and the knight is off its 4 pawns bishop white vs 4 pawns knight black. white has the advantage simply because his king is closer to his sole isolated wing pawn on a4 while the black king is a move or two behind with his king all the way over at g8 sleeping away. By the time the black king does get there he and his knight are busy trying to defend his pawn and from the not so overly zealous white pawn trying to make its way up to queendom. after the pawns on the a column are exchanged this leaves white's mighty bishop to rain free and gobble up a queue of pawns on columns F-H and game over. Roman could have saved the game if black didnt bxp which is the "saving grace" in this game. bxp is an amazing move no doubt. But perfect (C) play and the way human's play are completely different. It would be very easy after Nd3 to totally screw up and have a draw with this using a wrong exchange and/or move order, very simple indeed. That's why just looking at it half-vicariously I said sure this is drawish Nd3. But its more complex upon a second glance isn't it. I don't pretend or portend to be a super strong player infact my highest ELO at blitz was 1900+ but who cares about that. I'm just a man in search of the truth and a shot got called and I took it so there it is complete and baring fruit. thanks! Mike
That's ok, no need to be a Super GM to give your opinion on a game. In fact it's a sure way to improve your chess by asking questions that others are afraid to ask. But of course having said that, it's only your opinion and not everyone has to agree on it since people only give credence to the opinion of Super GM's blindly and not the likes of you hehehe. So take it easy and enjoy your chess Cheers
My opinions were backed by a 3000+ ELO engine :)
Mike
I tried it personally in my home pc, so now false homework. I set up the game(60/game is where you'll see the best move in my personal tests)in my 3GHz p4 HT with 512MB RAM pc. Maybe you tried infinite analysis not playing a game against it? I tried my analysis by letting it play a move.
I'll update you next time, I wasn't able to record the time, hehe... Please try it also in your pc, try 60min/game, and let rybka move,as if you are going to play a game, then see the results. Mike doesn't believe my findings, so maybe more tests by other persons should be done. I may not be the best of testers, but I do not report false informations. You can either believe or not believe my conclusions, but please do not say that I am giving you false infos.
thanks! Mike
Brutus is Hydra's predecessor(created by the same author/programmer), at least that is from all the infos I've gathered so far. According to the brutus team, the capture of the pawn by the bishop is the best move. I am in no position to question the findings of the brutus team; I just tried in my home pc if rybka could do the same, yes, 1.1 can find the move(using the method I said earlier), but other later versions couldn't...I theorized then that this maybe due to that "misstep" claimed by Vas...I do not know yet at this time, if this misstep is already corrected... For the link to this game, click here: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1117 More info about brutus here: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=221 Maybe those who purchased rybka can email Vas or Convekta to find the answers to queries like these...
On my 32-bit single cpu 3GHz Pentium 4 HyperThreading 512MB RAM with 128MB allocated for hashtables, and in a 60min/game time, rybka 1.1 finds the move in 2 minutes and 57 seconds, with an evaluation of 0.39/17
Battousai , you are totally right about Brutus But Mike was going great guns ridiculing the example given by you , offering new insigts while not having a clue about either the position or Brutus. That's what made me write somewhat acerbic post.
[My opinions were backed by a 3000+ ELO engine :)] hahahahaha good grief I thought you analysed on your own. But see the good thing about 3000+ ELO engines is they don't give other's opinion as their own, which is why everyone takes them seriously.
Hi! Hehe, thanks for the words of support... It's normal for people to react badly to how he made his comments no doubt, but as Christians let us forgive people like what I did with Mike; Let us make more friends and no enemies. Let us all act to make the world a better place to live in. Let us rise above the contradictions in life and live life according to God's will... Perhaps he only needed more actual proofs and haven't read much about brutus team or the hydra team...Let us understand people; make peace with everyone, not war. Peace be to all! Live life to the fullest! Inspire more people to become closer to God!
Christians? Well I'm not Christian, would be interesting to know the religious/non-religious demographic here. I'm non-religious btw.
I think that it is better to take it for granted that there are users of all religious persuations ( including of course those who do not follow any religion ) and ethnicities here and leave it at that .
we all believe in Great VAS and his child Rybka ;)
It's okey, hehe...Just do what you think is right; just do everything to promote love, peace, generosity, respect and happiness to make the world a better place for all people... Let us all become united and help one another!
In my other tests, shredder 10 uci with the complete 3-4-5 men shredderbases finds the move(BxF2)in 1min.&36secs. with an evaluation of 0.00/16. Deep Shredder 9.1 uci(with only the 3-4 men egtb in nalimov format)finds the move in 3mins&34secs with an evaluation of 0.61/16. Toga 1.2.1a, Deep Junior 9, Zap Chess, Deep Fritz 8, Fritz 8 Bilbao, Fritz 9, Hiarcs 10 Chessbase and Fruit 2.2.1 couldn't find the BxF2 move with the time that I set... I haven't tried glaurung and spike though(haven't installed yet)... I also haven't tried hiarcs x50, as I don't have it.
First of all you don't seem to read very well I'm not saying he was wrong and wasn't disputing bxp in the brutus position. and I didn't start using the [3000+ ELO] engine until the later mosts when I was being told , [" That's ok, no need to be a Super GM to give your opinion on a game. In fact it's a sure way to improve your chess by asking questions that others are afraid to ask. But of course having said that, it's only your opinion and not everyone has to agree on it since people only give credence to the opinion of Super GM's blindly and not the likes of you hehehe."] which reaffirmed my original opinions. Lets not start insulting me just because I was right. and I don't get where anonymous guy is saying, "[not having a clue about either the position or Brutus] I couldnt give a crap about Brutus really. I was just straighting a false statement by this guy. My knowledge of the position is is inconsequencial. Opinion's in themselves have little basis on fact. And the false statement that had been made was, ["In the position below, you will find after testing that only rybka 1.1, finds the winning move/winning --------- sacrifice(Black bishop takes pawn at f2) by brutus in the Romanshin - Brutus game. All other rybka versions(1.2 and later versions)move Nd3. Black to move: 4r1k1/p4ppp/1p1q1n2/1Pb1n3/8/1N4P1/PB3PBP/2RQ2K1 b - - 0 1 "] the version underline specifically states that only version 1.1 of Rybka finds the correct move bxp and I was simply stating this was INCORRECT. I don't know how to elaborate the obvious any further ok? Mike
I guess it reformatted the underline under the wrong word but you get the jest of my little note. The facts are facts I don't need to be 1900 or a 2800+ SUPER GM. Rybka 2.1 proves that your statement is incorrect by find bxp in 7 mins and 20 seconds. end of story
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